Which would you choose?

Hi, freezepop again--this time with a more upbeat question. I need some help.

Say, hypothetically, that its the future and you get the call or the email and you've been invited to both san diego and seattle.

which do you choose?

They've both got a great lineup.

Seattle is slightly cheaper (and closer to me: vancouver)) but san diego is on the beach! and its full room and board vs partial for seattle.

Do you know if one generally offers more scholarships? Do you have an author preference?

 

 

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Comments

Choose?

Submitted by Oso on March 19, 2009 - 6:30pm.

Choose?  I'm to the point of going back into my records and verify I applied to them!  No news is good news, right?  I'm ready for some news, good or bad (but good is preferable).

-Oso 

(http://osomuerte.wordpress.com)

Go with your gut

Submitted by TR_Double (not verified) on March 18, 2009 - 2:56am.

Hi All,

As a 2008 grad, I occasionally check out the 2009 forums because...I'm a bit nostalgic I guess.  And I came upon this thread, wherein I thought I could actually be helpful since I have a little experience in this area.

Last year I had the honor of being accepted by both programs.  I spent considerable time thinking about the pros and cons of each and frankly came to a draw.  What finally decided it for me was a combination of factors that were entirely personal and had nothing to do with one being better than the other.

A couple of my reasons: Since I was (and still am) very new to the scifi game, I wanted to establish professional contacts and get a taste of the field and the poeple working within it.  The well-established Spec fic community in Seattle was really attractive.  As well, I had a friend who was in the 2007 class and he was quite enthusiastic about the incredible support staff at CW.  He was right -my 6 weeks were amazing and the admin were a huge part of that positive experience.  The earlier timing of the CW program also worked well with the rest of my life.

We Seattle folks weren't in constant contact with the SD folks, but we heard good things - they seemed to really value their experiences.

Yes, there were drawbacks--I couldn't get college credit at CW vs. Clarion (but that was specific to my university) and altho I wouldn't give up my CW instructors for any treasure, I had wistful Neil Gaimon moments after I made my choice.

So in summary:

Go with your gut.  Both programs are awesome, a total win-win if you are in the lucky position to make the choice.  Good luck to all of you!

Tracy

No Choice

Submitted by izanobu on March 17, 2009 - 12:25am.

I could have hedged my bets and applied to both I guess, but I applied to CW because of the line up this year, so it never occured to me to apply to the other.

 

If I don't make it this year I'll likely apply to both next year and my preference then will be based on the people teaching more than location...

A Hero's Choice

Submitted by Randy_Henderson on March 16, 2009 - 8:58pm.

Oh man.  This is one of those trick questions, right?  Like, by choosing neither and showing my humble nature, I show my worthiness to be king of both? 

Or no, wait, by refusing to favor one over the other, I show that I am fair and just in my choosing, and thus deserving of a great reward?

Or wait.  Okay.  I just need to figure out which Clarion is like the girl I've been friends with my whole life and am completely oblivious to her feelings for me, and which is like the shallow pretty girl I have a superficial crush on, and then get accepted by the superficial girl Clarion, but realize that what I really wanted was there waiting for me all along in the friend Clarion? 

Oh, no, a HA, I got it!  By choosing the one that looks like the simple, worn out Clarion of a poor carpenter, I will have chosen ... wisely.

No, that doesn't make any sense.

Oh geez.  Okay, now I'm really stressing out. 

Wait.  I just remembered.  I only applied to CW, so I guess it's kinda moot :) 

Tough call

Submitted by CoreKnell (not verified) on March 16, 2009 - 9:33pm.

Same reasoning as the Vancouverites, but a different outcome.  My first instinct would be San Diego, since it's down the coast from me and UCSD is an amazing setting for such a retreat. Of course, that's not really enough to justify one over the other.  They both feature some incredible writers this year and I would be honored to attend either.  Or both!  Maybe I can send my evil twin to one or the other and then we will have double the knowledge when we rejoin.  And then my head will promptly explode, but that's another matter.

Frankly, I'm trying not to think about it to that degree. I figure the choice will be made for me, barring some astronomical good fortune.  Clarion SD is supposedly informing everyone by Friday, so in four days we'll all know whether we have this dilemma or not.

(Is Seattle west of San Diego?  It's all so confooosing now that they have relocated!)

C.

Clarion slightly less west

Submitted by Freezepop (not verified) on March 16, 2009 - 10:04pm.

Seattle is more west. So I guess its Clarion West and Clarion-slightly-less-West.

 Ah...its such a tough choice, I almost want to go to San Diego just BECAUSE its further away. I figure I'll learn more in a strange environment. Travelling is a major maturer, I've found. Travelling + writing workshop = betterment?

I don't know.... 

There's definitely something

Submitted by CoreKnell (not verified) on March 17, 2009 - 12:51am.

There's definitely something to be said for unfamiliar surroundings. You can completely remove any of your regular distractions.  On the other hand, if something new and interesting is going on there, that might backfire. ;)

UCSD seems like a great spot for a working retreat, since it's way out in La Jolla and fairly isolated.  (Add also that the campus itself is huge and will probably be mostly deserted at that time of summer.)  The ocean is also nearby, as you pointed out, and the water is actually warm then as opposed to up the coast. Whether that's good or bad is up to you and your writing habits, I guess.

I don't really know anything about the Clarion West setting, though it sounds a bit more urban -- which would be cool in its own right. Anyone else have insight into that?

Really, I think both would be great. It might come down to a one-by-one instructor stand-off if necessary. May we all be so lucky as to have to choose!

CW all the way

Submitted by Jordan Lapp on March 16, 2009 - 8:13pm.

The difference for me was the Seattle spec fic community.  I live in Vancouver, so I'm much more likely to meet CW people at cons and such.

Jordan Lapp

Visit My Blog: www.withoutreallytrying.com

Ah, fellow vancouverite.

Submitted by Freezepop (not verified) on March 16, 2009 - 8:21pm.

Ah, fellow vancouverite. We're taking over, it seems.

Yeah, that's a good point and it is definitely a factor in my decision. It seems like so many live around the seattle/portland area. Seattle is to SF writers what New York is to literary writers.

But I wonder if the san diego wouldn't also give you an 'in' with that community. You can still show up to norwescon and say, "hay! Clarion graduate Jordan Lapp, here.  How are you, Mister James Patrick Kelly?" if you go to the san diego one, I think.

Location wasn't an issue for me...

Submitted by clothingoptional on March 16, 2009 - 7:35pm.

I live in Ohio, so location wasn't an issue.  For me, it was the subtle differences between the programs.

 

I like the smaller class size at CW.  I also like the broader focus on the whole business of being a writer in this field...  That's why I only applied to CW.  Clarion looks fab, but it wasn't what I wanted.

hmm

Submitted by Freezepop (not verified) on March 16, 2009 - 7:43pm.

so...CW focuses more on the business end...

 Do you think CW having a senior editor at Tor is decision swaying. Tor is pretty much the microsoft of fantasy novels after all

By swaying, do you mean in

Submitted by clothingoptional on March 16, 2009 - 7:58pm.

By swaying, do you mean in terms of who gets in?  Nah.  The submissions guidelines are clear that it's supposed to be your best work (scifi, fantasy, or even just standard non-spec fic stuff).  I've also read other discussions about this and it's clear that it isn't like that.

 

If you mean post-Clarion acceptance, again I doubt it...  It probably doesn't hurt.  Certainly gets a foot in the door.  But what I understand is that going to World Con or World Fantasy can do more for your career than all the finery on your cover letter.

 

Of course, this  all assumes you've written bang up piece.

 

On the CW/C differences, I never found it outlined point by point.  It just seemed to me that there was a greater focus on other aspects of the craft besides the short story.  That could just be my impression.

 

In the end, I just wanted a smaller grou of folks to work with.

 

smaller grou?

Submitted by Randy_Henderson on March 16, 2009 - 8:44pm.

Just remember, you don't want to get attacked by a gru in the dark. 

But if you are, the smaller the better.

take lamp

light lamp

attack gru

FROBOZZLE!

 

likely... as I've not a torch or a match in my inventory

Submitted by clothingoptional on March 17, 2009 - 4:31am.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nigRT2KmCE

Love me some Nerdcore.

Point

Submitted by izanobu on March 16, 2009 - 9:00pm.

technically, gru don't attack.  They just eat you.

Smaller group?

Submitted by Oso on March 16, 2009 - 8:16pm.

I thought both workshops accept 18 applicants (though I've heard of classes with more).  Does CW have a rep for selecting fewer than the full 18?  Or does East have a rep for flowing over their advertised limit?

Just curious.

-Oso 

(http://osomuerte.wordpress.com)

The same?

Submitted by Freezepop (not verified) on March 16, 2009 - 8:26pm.

Their websites both cite 18. So far as I know, they're the same.

 which would you choose, Oso?

Workshops are like puppies

Submitted by Oso on March 17, 2009 - 7:29am.

Workshops are like puppies; it is usually best to take the one that chooses you.  If you take the cutest one, it might only seem cute because it just got finished mauling another puppy and is now sleepy.

Let's look at the pros and cons.  

West's instructor lineup is amazing.  Kessel, Fowler, Hartwell...are you kidding?  East's lineup is no slouch, either, and seems more varied.  I like Black's experience with younger audiences; I've become a Crais fan while listening to the audiobook of The Forgotten Man (and I enjoyed the film version of Hostage); Robinson's a big-leaguer.  

If I go to CW, I'll miss my best friend's wedding, a nuptial that many doubted would ever occur.  That would be a bummer, but we have discussed things and he will forgive my absence for reasons of pestilence, war, death, famine, or workshop (the lesser-known fifth horseman).

West is cheaper but covers less food.  Food is a major expense for me, being a fat man.

Seattle has the rich speculative community.  San Diego has ComiCon and many distractions (may be good or bad).  

Clarion has a longer tradition, but the two blend into each other, so I discount that. 

Don't get me wrong, I do have a preference.  It would be rude to express it before they get to pass judgment on me.  Maybe ask next week. 

-Oso 

(http://osomuerte.wordpress.com)

Food at CW

Submitted by LesHowle (not verified) on March 18, 2009 - 8:47pm.

FYI - This will be covered in your packet, but just to clarify...  At CW we have our very own cook, yep, just for us. She prepares lunch and dinner M - TH.  There are usually more than enough leftovers from the week to sustain people Friday and Saturday, and on Sunday, small groups of people in the class take turns preparing a group dinner or the calss decided to just order pizza (everyone pitches in a few bucks). 

The cook keeps the kitchen stocked with enough cereal, coffee, tea, milk, yogurt, fruit, and bread/bagels for you to provide yourself with self-serve breakfast seven days a week and there are always stock items such as peanut butter, jam, and cheese available for sandwiches. So really, even though she doesn't cook for us Friday - Sunday, she makes sure that there is food  available.  On the weekends you can choose to scrounge for yourself from the kitchen, buy a few groceries you particularly want, or go out to eat. 

Wow! A Cook?

Submitted by Jordan Lapp on March 19, 2009 - 7:07am.

I'm blown away. I was all ready to shop for groceries and such, but food included in the tuition certainly helps with the cost factor. I can't wait!

Jordan Lapp

Visit My Blog: www.withoutreallytrying.com

The Cook

Submitted by LesHowle (not verified) on March 19, 2009 - 3:01pm.

Yeah, it's wonderful.  When you finish class aorund noonish you just walk into the dining room and serve yourself from sandwich makings, salad bar, and sometimes soup or baked goods, etc.  Our cook's name is Joanie and she is very mom-like.  Prepare to be pampered! Wink

Sounds like my idea of a vacation

Submitted by rcloenen-ruiz on March 19, 2009 - 3:53pm.

Not having to cook and having all those wonderful days to write sounds like my idea of a perfect holiday :) 

 

Huh?

Submitted by clothingoptional on March 17, 2009 - 4:34am.

Is see it say 18 for 2009, but I could have sworn it was like 32 last year.  Maybe I'm losing my mind.